Bryan Sutton: He's Ready To Go
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Second interview - conducted via phone in April 2000 (reprinted from Flatpicking Guitar Magazine, Volume 4, Number 4, May/June 2000)

The last time we featured you in the magazine, you had made quite a name for yourself in bluegrass circles as a member of Ricky Skagg's band Kentucky Thunder. You have since left that band to pursue studio work. What kind of interesting studio sessions have you been involved in since leaving Skaggs?

Things that were fun were the Jerry Douglas record, which led to other work with him on a Jesse Winchester record about a year ago. I like that record. It is a good all-around musical record to listen to. I played on a couple more of Ricky's albums, the Ancient Tones album that just won a Grammy and then the Soldier of the Cross gospel record. I played on a tune called "Sin Wagon" on the Dixie Chicks' Fly album. That album also won a Grammy. Rhonda Vincent's record has come out and by the time this prints Aubrey Haynie's new album will be out. I think that is about all as far as flatpicking. I play on a lot of other stuff that is more country--basically doing the country rhythm strum kind of thing.

Do you play fingerstyle guitar on any of the sessions?

The finger picking that I do is the "chicken picking" style. I still have a pick in my hand, but also pick strings with my middle and ring finger. I used that style of playing on a couple of tunes I recorded for my CD. Anything that sounds like it is fingerpicking is done with a pick. The pick never leaves my hand.

I believe the last time we talked, you were experimenting with your choice of picks. What are you using now?

I still experiment. I don't believe that there is a perfect set of strings or a perfect pick. There is such a wide range of tones available with different picks and strings. For my main bluegrass flatpick I still use the Dunlop 500 (1.14mm). I usually never go heavier than that. I might use a tortoise shell pick on a gut string solo to get a fatter sound, but usually on a session I will go lighter. I will use a .96 mm for most session work. When I play country rhythm in a session I will go with an incredibly light pick, like a .50mm.

Do you also change guitars for different sessions in order to have access to an array of different tones?

I will usually go into a session with at least three guitars ranging from my Brazilian rosewood Dreadnought for lead things, one of my round shouldered guitars for rhythm because they have a really nice high end that will cut through drums and things like that, and then I will take the OM a lot times for fingerpicking things. Many times, depending on the session, I also take a gut string guitar and a high strung guitar as well. I use an Ibanez guitar that I have had since I was a kid for the high strung guitar.

So when you go to a session you have a trunk load of guitars and select the one that would best fit the song?

Yes, the standard way of doing things is to collect all the musicians in the control room and listen to a work tape and run over the chart. Then basically it is up to me to choose what I feel will work best for a tune. A lot of times a producer will agree with me, but will add something else to it. He might say, "Let's do that, but try this style of strum around this groove." Or he might say, "We want to stay with a gut string on this one."

Could you tell us about the guitars that you own?

I have the Bourgeois Brazilian rosewood Dreadnought (D-150) and three round shouldered Bourgeois guitars. One is the sunburst that is on the cover of the new album, another is a mahogany guitar that is equipped with an L.R. Baggs pick-up system that I use when I need to plug-in at live shows, and the third is the first Bourgeois I bought. It is a mahogany guitar with a bear-claw spruce top. It is the "banjo killer" that I used on several tunes on my record. My OM is made by Bourgeois as well. I also have a 1950 Gibson Southern Jumbo that I will sometimes take out to provide another tone color on a recording. It has a more edgier vintage sound. My gut string guitar is a solid top Takamine.

Don't you have a Selmer-Maccaferri style guitar that you use on the gypsy jazz tunes as well?

Yes, that was made by Maurice Dupont. He is an incredible builder.

When did you become interested in the gypsy jazz style of music?

Probably about the time I moved to Nashville and started hanging out with Aubrey Haynie. He turned me on to some newer players like the Rosenberg Trio and some of the American guys like John Jorgenson and the Hot Club of San Francisco. Those guys are really good guitar players and there is such a similarity to me with the energy that you use in playing that style and the energy in bluegrass. It is basically another outlet. I enjoy getting out there and playing that kind of spirited music. It is fun to play.

You and Aubrey play a couple of those style tunes, "Minor Swing" and "Lady Be Good," on your record. Do you ever get calls to play that style in sessions?

I don't consider myself a jazz guitarist. What I do in that style is my interpretation of it. When I was cutting those songs, I had learned several stock Django things and had gotten an understanding of his style of soloing, but what I did on the record was really my own take on it. When I first cut those songs I was making a conscious effort to stay close to Django's style. As I was trying to play what I had learned and trying to keep it close to what Django did, it didn't feel right. It didn't feel like me. So I went back another day, turned the tape on and played through it a few times without trying to play it like Django.

Has your experience playing that style influenced your bluegrass soloing?

When it comes down to the thought process and the note choice and things like that, I find that the Django style of playing translates back and forth very well. A lot of the tempos are the same and the spirit behind what you are playing is the same.

You have been on two of Aubrey Haynie's recordings and he played on yours as well. How long have you two known each other?

I met Aubrey shortly after I moved to Nashville and was hanging out at the Station Inn at their Sunday night jam. He and I and Dave Harvey and David Grier would do a lot of playing down there. Aubrey and I are similar ages and we started hanging out during the week. He was still on the road with Clint Black at the time and I was still doing a lot of session work around places other than Nashville. This was six to eight months prior to joining up with Ricky Skaggs. Aubrey and I would do a lot of playing together. It was really good for me because I really hadn't done a ton of flatpicking up to that point. He is such an energetic and passionate musician it was fun to hang around with him.

When you left Ricky, I know that your intention was to stay at home and concentrate on studio work, but it also seems like you have been out on the road more than most Nashville session players.

With bluegrass there is the realization that in order to do it so that it is fulfilling, you have to be out there playing on a stage and create that energetic live bluegrass sound. It is hard to do that when you are sitting under headphones all day. It is such a live kind of music that it naturally warrants that you have to go out and do it. I am very fortunate to have had the gigs that I have had come my way. It allows me to pick and choose when I go out.

Tell us about the work you did with the Bluegrass Sessions band.

I got the call for that literally just a few days before the tour went out. I got the call on Friday and the first date was on Tuesday. They were trying to wait to see what Tony's doctors said about his hand. They really didn't know what the injury was, how extensive it was, or how soon he could recover. He was trying to play a little every day and just couldn't do it. I was going to Slovakia with Jerry Douglas that weekend to perform with him at the Dobrofest they hold over there. I spent the whole weekend in the hotel room going over the songs from the Bluegrass Sessions album.

What did find particularly challenging about stepping in and playing with that band?

It had been a long time since I had been in a band where every night was so different. Bela really tries to mix things up. We may have played the same set list twice in 30 dates, but no more than that. It was also challenging to solo over more than the three chord standard bluegrass songs. To get out there and try to create that kind of newer bluegrass was fun and challenging.

Had you played that style of music before?

Through jazz studies and things like that. That is basically what bluegrass soloing is about: grasping the melody but still going somewhere and making it your own.

Was there any rehearsing at all during the tour?

We met in Jerry's hotel room the afternoon of the first gig. But that was it. We often used the sound check to practice and work up new tunes.

Did the shows include material that was not on the Bluegrass Sessions record?

You know, it was such a musical bunch up there, we played songs from Jerry's records and Sam's records and we played the traditional stuff. I usually had a tune every night that was a feature for me.

How did you get the call to play on Dolly Parton's record? I think the original pre-production thoughts were between Dolly's producer Steve Buckingham and Jerry Douglas. They rounded up the band. What challenges did you face in the recording of that album? It is always challenging to go in the studio and make the recording sound perfect for that artist. Different artists will make that hard or easy. Dolly made that really easy. To me, her vocal style was right along with what we were doing musically. When she would open her mouth there was no question about how things were supposed to feel. It was kind of a magical time. The music on that record was all cut in about a day and a half. Several of the cuts on that record are the first take. Normally an artist will make a scratch vocal and use that as a reference, but her references were so perfect, that is what they kept. It is neat to know that you can still go out and find stuff that is first take live music.

You are a member of the Flatpick-L list serve group on the internet and I noticed that when the topic came up about "playing in the zone" you responded that you were interested in studying that concept and its parallels in athletic and musical performance. Can you comment on that?

The biggest challenge for me right now as a musician is not more chords that I want to learn, or more licks that I want to learn, or playing faster or slower. . . Musically I feel comfortable and confident with my ability. But there is a mental side to being a professional musician that is challenging and sometimes rears its ugly head when you are not prepared for it. It is not a lack of confidence really, but it has to do with the fact that you have done something so much that you begin to think about it too much. You loose the initial energy and spontaneity that made something great in the first place.

When you "try" to recreate something, or purposefully take it to a different level, it doesn't happen. "Trying" to do something and spontaneity don't mix. Studio playing is a wonderful example of that. In a session you will run through a song the first time to get the feel for the charts and make sure everyone's parts are right. Then you come back and go at it again for the actual take. Sometimes it is hard to recreate what you just did because the first time it was right off the cuff and spontaneous, but it didn't go down on tape. You then have to create something that is basically the same thing for the actual cut. Then your mind becomes more involved and you are less spontaneous.

I found that I encountered the same sort of challenge when I was playing on stage with Ricky Skaggs. I would have to take a solo over a song that Tony Rice may have recorded ten years ago or Doc recorded fifteen years ago. All this is going through my mind, or I should say, I choose to let this go through my mind in my effort to try and play something different than what they had played. I would be consciously trying to make something happen when I really should have tried to just let it happen. I find that there are different methods in books that I have read that deal with sports psychology. I find similarities in what I do to a professional golfer because it is such an inner game.

How do you try to accomplish this goal of playing spontaneously, being in the moment, and letting the music flow out of you without thinking or "trying?"

I am still experimenting with it. It is a choice. If thoughts are getting in the way of what I am supposed to be doing, then I am choosing to let those thoughts interfere. I make the initial realization that this poses a problem. Then I try to tell myself to play in the moment.

Many improvisational players that I have talked to (who tend try to always play spontaneously), have a very difficult time trying to play sessions. When the artist requests that they repeat what they had just played, they can't do it because they don't really know what they had just played. How do you deal with that situation?

I try to get a feel about something as opposed to specific notes. "I want this to feel bluesy" or "I want this to feel sad," or whatever.

Is that what you convey to the artist? "I can't play those exact same notes, but I can give it the same feel."

Yea. That will usually suffice. There is also this "musical" or "musician" line of thinking that I try to live by in the studio and that is that you always try to play what is best for the song. If you have always got that in your mind, that is as far as you need to go with your thinking process.

Do ever find yourself in that "zone" and hear yourself play something that you have never played before and think to yourself "that was great!" and then not be able to play it again when you "try" to recreate it?

Yea, that happens every day. That is part of it I guess. You hope that it gets to the point where you are always creating something new. I think Earl Scruggs is that way. He is still creating. He has been around for so long and so many people have copied his style, but to ask him about what he did, he doesn't know. That is really cool. That is when you really know that you have an original guy. Here is the source. And he continues to be the source.

When I look at Earl, or Django, or Bill Monroe, they were obviously drawing from their influences, but they were also doing something that was totally new. I would love to be like that. When I play some lick and I know exactly where the lick came from, I feel so unoriginal. If I had something that I could call my style, I would say that it would be something that drew from all my influences, but was still me. I would not point to any one specific player as being my main influence.

Does the ensemble you are playing with effect what you play?

A musical fundamental of ensemble playing is listening. You allow yourself to sit back and be aware of what is going on. That is another way you can find the zone. You are confident enough in your own playing to the point where you can have fun with it. You can sit back and listen to the sound of the band and how everything works together. If the fiddle player plays a neat little slide, you can match that with him off the cuff. If the bass player has a good groove, you can get into that groove and enjoy it.

Do you feel that a player has to reach a level in his playing ability where he is really confident with his own playing before he will be able to really listen to what is going on around him?

Yea. That is part of it. If you don't trust yourself you will never get out of that self-conscious train of thought.

Do you practice at home very much these days?

No, I don't. I am trying to find some discipline to do that. The hardest thing about it is, if I do have a day off, to feel like I want to get up and play some more when I have played for 9 or 10 hours a day in the studio for the last three days. I know that I need to be practicing a little more.

If you had the time to practice and you picked up your guitar right now, what is it that you would work on?

My thought about practice for me right now is that I would like to practice things that you can't practice just sitting in a room playing by yourself or with a metronome. Although that is terribly important, a lot of what I want to work on are things that I can work on while I am playing on a session. I am confident enough in my abilities to know that I will always be able to play something that will be fine and will work, but my goal is to always play what I feel is best for the song. I will listen to different players who influenced me and I feel like, "those were the perfect notes for that song," or "that fill-lick behind that vocal was perfect." That is where I want to go.

Because there are so many standards in bluegrass I would imagine that you have been called upon to play a solo on one of those songs that you felt had been played "perfectly" by someone else before you. How do you approach that?

You come up with your best stuff when you are presented with this kind of obstacle and you can get through it. Ultimately, that is what makes you better. I am frequently challenged on sessions with obstacles like playing a particularly difficult set of notes with a piano player or playing on a real slow song exactly with the click track or metronome. When I can get through that and still make the music come across, I feel like I have done a good job and I feel like I have grown.

Are there any particular sessions that are the most challenging for you?

Most of the stuff we cut here in Nashville is musical to me. When things are challenging is when they are not very musical--when you have to play a bad song. You have to try and create something out of something that is not there. You keep drawing and pulling and trying stuff and it is just not working. A big challenge in session playing is working on sessions like that and still keeping a good attitude about it.

You have a very nice musical variety on your new CD. What was your thought process in selecting the tunes you wanted to put on this recording?

To me, that record is a pretty good representation of what I like and what I like to play. I enjoy the really fast bluegrass songs, but I also really dig trying to write songs like "The Good Deed." I don't want to be one sided or lean too much on playing fast bluegrass and not be able to create a mood with something else.

One of the thoughts I had was that I knew that a lot of people had heard me do that real fast stuff when I was with Ricky, and that is fine, but I didn't want a record of just fast music. That wouldn't be very rewarding to me or the people that would listen to it. It was a goal to try to convey that I enjoy doing other stuff. One of my goals as a musician is to feel like there are lots of different things that I can do. I have always enjoyed trying to be multi-faceted in styles and approaches and not feel like there is one particular style of flatpicking that is the only one that I do.

What is your song writing process?

Different things just come out. I will get an idea, or a feel. The first cut on the record, "Decision At Glady Fork," I had had it in my mind for several weeks that I wanted to come up with an uptempo bluegrass song in the key of G. I had written part of the A part and then let that breathe for a while and came up with some different things. With my song writing, I think I can come up with the best stuff by just letting it happen and not forcing anything. I couldn't be one of these writers that churns out a lot of stuff.

For this recording, there were specific things that I wanted. I kind of have an idea of what I want a song to be like before I know what the song is. With the "Grover Glen" song, I had a general feel of what I wanted the song to feel like and I used that as an initial inspiration.

Do you have any advice for students of flatpicking guitar?

I would recommend that a beginner find a good teacher. I think a good teacher is someone who can help a player find the unique things that work best for the individual student. A good teacher will not be so specific as to tell a student it has to be a certain way. He would allow a new player to experiment with what feels best in terms of body position and technique.

Once a student has learned the basic principles, I would always encourage them to look outside of flatpicking and learn as much musically as they can. They do not necessarily have to study tons of theory, but it might be good to study six months with a classical guitar player and learn to read music and see how different styles and different approaches to the guitar can be used. That is what has helped me the most. There are so many different ways to do things out there and for my own playing classical study was very helpful. It is the same way that a football player may go and take ballet lessons in order to learn to move better.

I also think that you cannot learn too many tunes. Whenever I do get time to sit down and practice, I will try to find some obscure fiddle record and learn some new tunes. When I go home and play with my dad over the holidays he will have some weird live kitchen tape of somebody playing and we will sit around and learn tunes from that.

Does your dad play lead guitar?

Yea. He is a really good flatpicker. He wouldn't say that, but I think he is.

You told us the last time we interviewed you that your grandfather was a fiddle player and a big influence on your musical development. Is he still alive? No, he passed away in '94 or '95. His name was Grover Sutton and the song on my record "Grover Glen" was written with the thought in mind of a lot of the songs that I had heard him play. He had a little bounce in his fiddle style and so to me the interval of the notes that occur in that song reminds me of his playing. The "Chief's Medley" is also named after him because he was a retired Navy Chief and a lot of his friends still called him "Chief" after he retired. The songs in that medley are songs that he used to play. My dad played rhythm guitar on that medley.

You showed me a picture of you and your father playing at the Station Inn. What was that occasion? That was a gig with Aubrey Haynie, Dennis Crouch, Rob Ickes, Dave Talbot, and myself. We did an all-instrumental night except when Dad got up there, he sang "Mole In The Ground."

Have you ever tried to sing?

I have always sung baritone parts growing up. I sang baritone with Ricky on occasion. I haven't nurtured my voice over the years as I should have. But I think that if I ever got into a band situation where I was a vocalist, I might enjoy that at some point.

On your recording you have four vocal numbers, one with Pat Enright, one with Jeff White, one with the Isaacs sisters, and one with Dolly Parton. How did you come up with those tunes and those people?

I think that there are less and less all instrumental albums being recorded. It is easier to get on the radio with a vocal. Except for the song that Becky and Sonya sing, the rest of the songs are solo vocals. I did not want a big three part harmony thing. I tried to find tunes that I knew would be really strong with a solo vocalist. I thought it was an added feature to an instrumental recording to have a buddy of mine come in and sing without too much of a production.

How did you end up getting Dolly to sing on your CD?

In the sessions for The Grass Is Blue, she and I would go in her vocal booth and run through the song to get the tempo right and make sure the key was right and do all of the general production kind of things. It was fun and was good for me because I got to know her a little better by doing that. I guess that when she was talking with some other folks about it she mentioned that she enjoyed working with me. The initial idea to see if she would sing on my recording came from Sugar Hill. That was very cool with me!

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Although Bryan is not officially a member of any band and has chosen to stay with session work as his career path, that does not mean that there will not be opportunities to see Bryan in person. As this issue goes to press Bryan will be performing with Jerry Douglas and Jesse Winchester at Merlefest and playing again with Jerry and Jesse at Telluride in June. He will also be an instructor at Steve Kaufman's flatpicking camp in June. Additionally, Bryan says that he may be continuing to play gigs around Nashville and possibly at a few festivals with Aubrey Haynie, Dennis Crouch, Rob Ickes, and Dave Talbot. However, Bryan's wife, Lori, is expecting their first child in July and so Bryan also intends on spending much of the remainder of this year at home. He says, "Ninety-nine percent of my leaving the road band was that for me my place is having a steady family life. I need that. It adds to my well-being. With a little girl coming along, I plan to be wrapped around her finger pretty soon."

Bryan Sutton endorses Bourgeois Guitars, L.R. Baggs pick-up systems, and Levi bags and straps.

The tune Bryan has chosen to play for us on our companion CD for this issue is called "High Heel Shoe" and we have provided the transcription to Bryan's first solo on the pages which follow. Bryan says that this is an old traditional fiddle tune he learned as a kid growing up in Asheville, North Carolina. Bryan learned it from some of the fiddlers who played at jam sessions in the community. He credits two fiddlers in particular, Marvin Faulkner and Tommy Bell, for popularizing this tune in Western North Carolina. On the recording Bryan plays guitar and mandolin and his friend Byron House plays bass.

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